Join me as Gina shares her story of finding the freedom and confidence that led to her adopting a “just try it” attitude. Some of the things we discuss include the power that meeting small challenges can have on our lives, how having a common goal in the divorce process can help the process not be so vindictive, and how aging and confidence after transitions can help us find new freedom in our lives.
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Gina has been a Montessori teacher for the better part of 30 years, is the parent of adult twins, and is embarking on her newest adventure of exploring an empty nest. If you’re interested in speaking with Gina about her experience of divorce mediation, please contact [email protected] to be put in touch with her.
Transcription
Stacie Crawford
Here we are. Thank you for being here. This week’s episode is going to be very exciting for me because I’ve got my longtime friend Gina Sorrentino here with me. And we’ve gotten to know each other a little bit here and there over the years. Some had some of our life experiences lined up on occasion. And so I’m super excited to have you here. So, Gina, could you please introduce yourself?
Gina
I’m Gina so, you know, it’s nice to meet to have um, thank you for having me. This is really kind of exciting for me. Um, what do you what do you want to know? What else do you want to know about me? What else should I say in this? 10 of swords? You know what, um,
Stacie Crawford
what do you do? Who do you love?
Gina
Wow. I am a Montessori teacher. I’ve been a Montessori teacher since 1987. I’ve worked with children as young as two months old, up into the age of 12. And my people, the place where I need to be and where I love to be is with toddlers and babies. But it’s harder to find those bigger situations. And who do I love? Wow.
Stacie Crawford
I figured we’d just start off really big.
Gina
I love my family. I love my family. I love my significant other. I love my friends. I love where I work. I think that’s a good list.
Stacie Crawford
I think that’s an amazing list. That’s an amazing list. Yeah. So we met each other whenever my daughter had the lovely experience of being in your classroom at the wee age of two. O MAs? Yes, I remember coming in and saying hey, just so you know, if you don’t run this classroom, my daughter will so have fun with that. Goodbye. I’m out of here.
Gina
Oh, what a firecracker. What an amazing firecracker.
Stacie Crawford
Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And then, you know, your kids are the same age as my son, and they enjoyed being around each other when they were growing up. So that was nice. I kind of got to see you a little bit outside of the classroom, which was nice. And then of course, over the past few years, we’ve reconnected and gotten to chit chat here and there and catch up, which has been awesome. Yay, Facebook, magic of Facebook, facebook, you know, we could we could spend a lot of time talking about the bad parts of Facebook, but there is something magical about being able to catch up with people and see people’s lives going by. Good. Yeah, I agree. I agree. So as you know, my podcast is revolving around this idea of as we go through changes, we have to go through psychological transitions, and we kind of get used to things that are going on. And one of the things that you and I have in common is that we both went through divorce or situations were a little bit different. And we you know, we experienced it differently. But I really wanted to talk to you about what you learned by going through your divorce, and how that divorce shaped who you are today. You know, very tiny topics, very, very tiny topics. So, you know, I guess where I’d like to start is, you know, what is it that you felt was the top thing that you learned going through your divorce?
Gina
So I’ve been thinking a lot about this. And what it what it really taught me was that I was really tired of being miserable. Hmm. And, and being angry and the impact of that misery and that anger was not only was not only emotional and mental it was also physical, but I didn’t even know that because it had been it was so wonderfully suppressed. toward not even, you know, in the, in the limelight. So to, to go through the process of mediation, which was, which I thought was really productive and helpful. And then to finally get to divorce, which conveniently took years. But that’s a whole different story. It was, it was. So it was so freeing, to finally to, to, it was so freeing to not have not have the anger, not have the the misery and just have to finally feel physically better.
Stacie Crawford
Yeah.
Gina
Does any of that?
Stacie Crawford
Does it does? You know it, I think it’s interesting because often we sit in a place where we’re experiencing something like for example, let’s say you hurt your arm, okay? And it hurts for a really long time and you get used to the pain and you work around it and you you do the things that you need to do, but that pain is always there. And then all of a sudden, that pain is gone one day, and you’re like, Oh, this is great. But when the pain comes back, it really hurts worse. What does it really hurt worse? Or were you just used to it and you were blind to how much it hurts? And you know, with you saying it wasn’t just this emotional thing? Like, oh my gosh, there were physical tolls going on, that you kind of weren’t really aware of until all of a sudden, you were aware of them?
Gina
Yeah. Yeah, it was really. It was, like, all of a sudden stepping out of a really heavy coat. Or, or shedding late. Yes, yes. Really. It was very, it was just very, very freeing to no longer have that in, in my life. And it was certainly terrifying. And there were certainly moments when I thought, what a my, what am I doing? Yeah. But then there were many more moments where I was when I was just in a place of, oh, my gosh, I feel so much better. I feel so much better. And I feel I feel so I feel so much more centered. I feel like I’ve got both of my feet on the planet on you know, on solid ground. Because I don’t have to weigh 12 million different things. And, yeah, I don’t have to weigh all of this stuff. I don’t have to keep all of these balls up in the air.
Stacie Crawford
Right. And I think that says a lot too, because you were going through this and you also had two children. So during all of this, it’s not like you have an I use luxury in air quotes. You know, you didn’t have the luxury of it. Just being yourself going through this divorce. You were also caring for two children that you want to be healthy and happy and understand that both of their parents love them and they’re going to be okay. But like, Holy crow, it’s a lot to hang on to.
Gina
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Stacie Crawford
So when you I know that the process took a really long time. I process took a long time to but not as long as yours. Did you get to a point within that time where you kind of felt like you had
Gina
settled
Stacie Crawford
in that place of groundedness or did that place of like I am centered and both feet are on the ground? Did that happen after like The divorce was final?
Gina
So it feels to me like it’s it feels to me like it. It changes. It changes. There was the I’m settled, and I’m grounded and I am now officially I’m divorced, and I am I am free. And I have and I have I have I have been the master, or the mistress of this, of this particular aspect of my fate right now. And now it’s now I’m moving on. There are other aspects of life that helped me stay grounded or help my or, or are expressions of my of my independence. And I’m coming, I’m coming into that next one’s, which is the one of being a mom of twin 19 year olds who are off and doing their own life. So I’m moving on to a I’m not answering your question. I mean, I got that I, there was certainly that one time, there was certainly that time of I’m a diverse divorced person. And look what I have done. And now I’m moving into another stage of, of independence. Yes. Of finding of now I’m transitioning again, let’s put it that out. Yes. Yeah, that that is a lot
Stacie Crawford
of sense. Now, right, right, that makes a lot of sense.
Gina
I
Stacie Crawford
have to imagine that because of the length of time of the divorce, like you, you had to, you had to transition the way that your relationship was with your axe. And so like you had, like, here’s when we’re married, this is what our relationship looks like, you know, here’s when we’re married. And we’re happy. And this is what it looks like, here’s when we’re married. And we’re not happy. This is what it looks like, here’s the divorce process and all that changes. And then once the divorce is final, were you at a point where your relationship with him was kind of settled into a place, because I imagine that you still have some kind of relationship with him because you have the kids.
Gina
Right? It’s so for, for me the hmm, I have to think of how to work this.
So for me, the status of the relationship that it has come into is a place where I know that I will, I will only be sucked into sucked into the vortex of his shit. If I let myself be sucked into the vortex of his shit. And their most part, I do a pretty good job. Like, haha, the boundaries? Right? Boundaries are here. Right? Right. Here are the boundaries. And if I decide for whatever reason, for whatever misguided, crazy reason to fall and open up the boundaries, or whatever I do, I try not to. So it’s a it’s a relationship now of kind of like going to the doctor’s office.
Stacie Crawford
And talking so a lot of sense because your kids are older. So they are doing their, their own thing, right? Also, they’re doing their own thing with each of their parents, whatever level that is, or is not does not matter, but that they’re at a point where, you know, they’re not like we were talking about toddlers earlier. They’re not toddlers, where you have to help them develop a relationship or you have to like be sitting here figuring things out or making sure that they’re seeing their other parent at this time or doing this like they’re at the point where it’s, it’s kind of up to them, you know, which allows you to have a little bit more space as well which I think is always a lovely thing. You know that that is a transition in and of itself.
Gina
Right and, and healthy I think are healthier, actually. For all of us, yeah. Just yeah, I think healthier for all of us. Yeah.
Stacie Crawford
Yep.
Gina
So
Stacie Crawford
one of the things that you had mentioned when we first started talking about you being on this podcast, was that you’re confident confidence in yourself changed throughout this process. And probably, this process had a lot to do with how you view yourself and how you feel about yourself. So what what was your self confidence, like, while you were going through the divorce, and again, just a reminder that this is 10 years that we’re, you know, so this is an extended period of time, with a lot of changes going on, because your kids were getting older. And it’s a long time.
Gina
It is, it was long time. And so, you know, if it was certainly not a It was certainly not a lovely, lovely upward progression of, you know, starting with kind of Fair to middling self confidence. And now I’m standing on top of the hill saying, Oh, um, certainly, it certainly wasn’t beautiful like that. It has been, it has been cyclical. And there have been, there have been some serious bombs, wrote. But it’s, it’s, it’s just been the, I think the thing for me is that it’s been, like, little moments, little, little moments that don’t seem significant. But it’s like, you know, I made that phone call. And I connected with my attorney after doing this thing. And we’re going to meet on this day. And we’re going to have this conversation. Oh, I did it. I did. Or the bill has come through, it’s time for me to write that check. I’m writing that check. This is cool. Yeah. And I can pay this person for her time. So it’s been it it, though, that feeling of that feeling of competence really came from, from little things, not from from big, majestic kind of moments. For the most part. It’s just been I, I did it, I did this little step. And oh, look, that wasn’t so bad.
Stacie Crawford
Yes. Which is a big thing to say, when you’re going through a process like this, because you could certainly pick out a million times where Oh, God, this feels not good. Now and so to have those moments where it does feel good. I’m sure it also allowed you to have more of the moments where you felt confident in your choices, you know, being like oh yes, this is completely the right decision. This is affirmation that I am on the right path at this point.
Gina
Right. Right. Yeah. So if when you
Stacie Crawford
like when you think about who you were, then this was a while ago. Yeah. When you think about who you were then compared to who you are now. What do you think about that person?
Gina
Um, so I wish that I hope this doesn’t come out too far out of left field, but I kind of wish
that I had listened to myself a little bit more. But on then, you know, the flip side of that is that I kind of had to go through the experience to figure out more of who I am. So it’s a it’s a that one’s that is tricky. I do kind of wish that I had not been trying to please my parents. You know, you’re It’s like, You’re the daughter, you’ve gotta get married. You’ve got to have a family, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Let’s go. But again, if I hadn’t have done those things, right, I wouldn’t have come to the point where I’ve come now. Yeah. I did a question.
Stacie Crawford
Yes, absolutely. Because, you know, I think so many people. So many people don’t give themselves credit for the way that they act, when they’re going through transitions. They just look back and be like, oh, gosh, I was a hot mess. And like, I should have done this or should have done that. And they don’t recognize that actually, while with it, you can sit there and be like, Oh, I wish this. And like, Look at the beauty and growth that has come from it. And also, like, you were doing exactly what you thought was the best choice at the time. Yeah, isn’t that all we can ever ask of ourselves to make what we think is the best choice. And so while I think that it’s normal for us to be like, Oh, I wish I would have done that. giving ourselves, you know, our past selves that grace of like, Yeah, but you know what, like, that kind of kicked ass. And this was kind of, you know, like, exactly like you were talking about, you know, to just be like, Oh, my God, I made that phone call, I’m going to this appointment, I’m, I’m able to write this check, you know, those little things. When you’re able to find that. Those high points, even if they’re very small, they’re they feel very small. They are high points, in terms of you showing up as as like, your real cell, which is kind of
Gina
cool. Which is cool. Yeah. And, and freeing, and there’s just that there’s just a real, it’s this weird release of oh, look at that. Yeah, I did that. Okay, cool. Okay, cool.
Stacie Crawford
And then you sit there and you wonder, wow, well, like if I could do all of these things. And I did something really big by doing all these tiny little steps, like, what else? Can I do it? It almost puts this limitless potential for whatever comes your way to, like, you can deal with it. Like I dealt with that crap. I could do it my way.
Gina
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So
Stacie Crawford
when you if you if somebody came to you, and they were like, Hey, I am thinking about going through a divorce and not really sure if this is what I should do? What kind of guidance would you give them based on your experiences? Well, I think mediation was pretty amazing. What was your experience with mediation? Did you just have one person mediating for both of you? Or how was it?
Gina
We went through two sessions of mediation? Yes, I was the driving force. And in each of those instances, we met with a couple people who were not married as a couple, but they worked as they work together. And in both instances, the guy was the lawyer, and the woman was, like a family counselor. Yeah, tight. Okay. So I thought that that was interesting that for both of those two unrelated, unrelated instances, it was the same makeup, and they were they had the same, the same roles of lawyer and family counselor. And it was always important for each of those for for all of those experiences that be remembered that that really, the people that count the most here are the people that we’ve got to be thinking about are these children that this relationship has brought into the world. So for Each each of those sessions, which is a bigger question, but for each of those instances, we were always encouraged to, you know, bring a picture of your kids,
we want a picture of your kids there. And we would talk really, practically, and respectfully about the, the nuts and bolts of what’s going on here.
Where’s everyone going to live? Who’s paying the bills? Who’s going to be paying car insurance for for Kenji, who’s going to be camping car insurance? For Kira? How is all of that? It was all practical issues. And that was that, for me, that was really that was comforting.
Stacie Crawford
Yeah. You know, it’s interesting, when I speak to people who go through a divorce, whether it’s through mediation, or the collaborative process, or even they’re going through the court systems, which, frankly, I would never recommend where we live, I would say, now avoid the court systems as much as possible, do as much as you can outside of it, unless you’re dealing with like domestic abuse, or, you know, like, yeah, that that’s, you know, fairly, that kind of makes sense to go that route. But when the people come to the table, and both, both spouses are operating from a viewpoint of what are the best decisions to make for our children, it changes the entire dynamic, it doesn’t mean that it’s easy, no or fun. It doesn’t mean that there aren’t disagreements or even straight up arguments, but you have a common goal. And the common goal is that you want to take care of these kids. And even if you disagree with that person across the table, you can understand that that person is arguing from a place of what they feel is best for their kids. Yeah, that changes that. So that dynamic of common goal keeps the personal attacks down. It keeps the feeling of being attacked, minimal, right, which I think is really great. Because if you do have the younger children, then it can lead into really good co parenting relationships, you know, as they move along. So my, my divorce was through the collaborative process. So it was a similar situation, but we had two attorneys, and then we brought in specialists as needed, and, and we hammered everything out. And then we took it to the court system and said, This is what we decided, you put your little hammer on it and say yes, the court agree. And off we go, you know, which was great, because there was not a judge making decisions for us. We call the decision now and it seems to me that that’s what mediation attempts to do as well, you know, yet it all set it out between the two of you because, you know, your family best.
Gina
Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, certainly for me, I I didn’t want alimony because I have a job. And I have always not gotten what I have always had a job and I don’t want to be i i don’t i don’t want that relationship. Right. Right. I just don’t want that relationship. But child support Yes. I, I would like some help. And other than that, let’s just figure out where we go from here. You know, yeah. Let’s make it as kind respectful as possible.
Stacie Crawford
Yes. Yes. I think that’s the biggest key to I want to say having a successful divorce. I know that that is a funny way a
Gina
little bit but like when,
Stacie Crawford
when both people are out for looking for the kind and respectful part. It goes a lot smoother. Yeah, really does.
Gina
It really does. Yeah. Yeah.
Stacie Crawford
So I think all of this is amazing. So I have one more question.
Gina
Yes. It’s
Stacie Crawford
not too terribly Oh, it’s not? Yes, not, no, it’s not too terribly. So you, but it is out of left field. So you’re gonna be like, dang, we didn’t talk about this. So you mentioned that, you know, here you are. And like life is in a state of transition again. So I’m guessing that, in a sense, what that means is that you have embarked on a new journey of who am I and what do I want? And you’re finding all these new experiences going on? So So what does life look like now? And how does your confidence your self confidence fit into all of that?
Gina
So Wow. Well, so it’s, I just feel like I am. I am. I need to find a little bit more of who I am now. As a 58 year old woman who’s going to be 59 soon.
I’ve, I’m, I’m an empty nester. What is that? What is that mean? Um, I’ve got to think more about my health, I should have been thinking about my
mom but and so I have to think more about my, my health. And, you know, there’s stuff I’ve got to pay attention to, again, should have been paying attention to it as well.
And I want to keep working as long as long as I can. Because I love it. And because it keeps it it’s
I love the work. I love the activity. But how much longer can I do it? Right, how much longer and then and so how do I how do I
What do I do with my time in this land of empty nester, it’s what do i do i Should I take voice lessons? That’s what I was thinking about in the drive. thru the drive to New Mexico and back and back. I’m like, hey, you know, my voice sounds really good.
And then the car? No, like, Yeah, I think I’m gonna start looking into some voice lessons. If it works. If it doesn’t, okay, you know, I tried. I should I just need to, like figure out some kind of physical routine.
I gotta do something about my body. Shape. Okay, so I can keep walking. But Dr. Lauren was saying, I’ve really got to add some strength training. So now is it yoga? Oh, you know, maybe it’s yoga. Maybe it’s maybe it’s going back to deep water aerobics. I don’t know what it is yet, but I gotta find it. You gotta find it. And I’m just the confidence is you know, I’ve just got to try. Yeah, I’ve just got to try. And if it succeeds, great. And if it doesn’t, Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah.
Stacie Crawford
You know, it makes me think of something that a friend and I were talking about earlier this week, that, you know, we we grew up with this mentality that everything has to be done perfectly the first time and so not only like, does it have to be perfect, but then like, I’m not going to do it unless I know I can do it perfectly, which means that there are a lot of things that we didn’t try Yeah, yeah. And then now whether it’s because of, you know, personal growth or getting older, or whatever it is. It’s like, oh, yeah, but like, everything’s just kind of an experiment. So like, if it works out, that’s, that’s cool. And if it doesn’t like, that’s cool, I’ll just go like, try something else. And it’s not really a big deal. And that sounds like that’s where you are. Yeah. And you know, what is mind boggling to me there are people that have lived their entire lives this way. Yeah. They’re just like, oh, yeah, just try it and see if it wasn’t like, you weren’t afraid of it not being perfect. Or, you know, like, I used to have people be like, Are you afraid to look like a fool? And I’m like, Are you kidding me? Like, part of why people love me is because I am so freely looking like a fool in front of them. Like, that’s not the problem. It’s just like, if I can’t do it, right, then why would I bother? And so to come to this point of like, yeah. And so it makes me question now, like, oh, like, is this a self confidence thing? What is that? Like? You know, because you said, this, my confidence is that like, I’m just gonna go try it. Just try it. Who cares? Yeah. You know, it’s yeah, interesting to me.
Gina
You know, I think it’s I think it’s self confidence. I also think it’s age. You know, they’re stuck. Just a
Stacie Crawford
step away from that video. That is like, you know, screw you in the Horsham rode in on give me my whiskey smokes and get the hell out of my face. I’m gonna do whatever the hell I want. And I don’t care. Get in there.
Gina
A lot of it for me is I just I don’t give a shit. I don’t I don’t care. I mean, if you if if it bothers you that I have fallen on my ass. Okay, right. Right. Okay. I mean, yeah, yeah. I love it.
Stacie Crawford
Okay, so any last words of wisdom for anybody who might be going through, say, a divorce or they’re contemplating a divorce? Any last words of wisdom for those people?
Gina
Wow. You’ve just got the zingers.
Stacie Crawford
I try Gina I
Gina
think. Um, so I think that if you’re in a relationship but it doesn’t feel like a relationship. And you’re thinking about divorce. If you’re thinking that something here doesn’t work, then maybe you try to work on it in a respectful kind of way, that works for the two of you. And then if it comes to the part, the point where you realize that it’s not going to work, then be kind to yourself. And pursue whatever is going whatever method is going to work for you to reconfigure and to reconfigure with the best interests of maybe your children. Right. And you because it’s too It’s too hard. Unnecessarily so, I think to pursue something that hurts your soul. I love it.
Stacie Crawford
I think that is beautiful. We have so many people who fall prey to divorce is bad and fall prey to the values and beliefs leaves that they grew up with. And they lose their chance at happiness because they’re unwilling to potentially shift what their values and beliefs are. And they think that there are people out there that need to give themselves a little bit of grace, give themselves kindness and understand that, like, we’re all humans, and yeah, when we deserve to be happy. And I also question like, if you’re miserable, how is the other person happy, they must be miserable. They must be, you know, so even though it may feel bad. Sometimes that’s the way you gotta go. You just got to do it. You know that that can be the best thing for everybody. Even when it feels really shitty during the moment, you know, you can really find your silver linings. Yeah. So thank you so, so much. I appreciate your time. I appreciate your honesty and sharing your experiences. I’ve been looking forward to this for a while. So I’m really happy. Thank you. And like I said earlier in the evening, I will hopefully be hearing your voice on another one of these podcasts because we’ve got a couple of other topics to be covering. So thank you for your time.
Gina
Thank you. Thank you.